Utterly Meaningless » Blog Archive » END AROUND?

END AROUND?

Filed at 11:05 am under by dcobranchi

What the heck does this mean? Scott Somerville noted on Kay’s listserv that they still hope to get Section 522 enacted into law. Let’s hope not.

UPDATE: Valerie has a lot more info.

34 Responses to “END AROUND?”


Comment by
Scott W. Somerville
December 14th, 2005
at 1:40 pm

Whether or not anybody agrees with HSLDA on this issue, I want to do all I can to make sure that nobody feels confused or blindsided by what happens. HSLDA has spent the last seven or eight years trying to make sure that homeschool grads can enlist in the military without having to take a GED or 15 college credits. (The Army has been eager to get HEKs but the Navy still tries to treat us like dropouts.)

Section 522 is very close to what we’ve been pushing for all these years, and we are NOT just siting on our hands while the anti-522 forces do what they can to stop it. I can’t guarantee that HSLDA will be more effective than NHELD, etc., when it comes to getting this stuff through, but we’re giving it our best shot.

IF we fail in our effort to get section 522 signed into law, we’ll try something else, but we won’t give up. It’s been seven years already; it may be seven more years before we feel like homeschool grads have a level path to military service. We may have to start listening to our opponents better, and we may have to win over some folks who don’t like the way we’ve done things in the past. This issue is important enough to HSLDA that we might even be willing to eat humble pie if that’s what it takes to get the job done.


Comment by
Daryl
December 14th, 2005
at 1:49 pm

IF we fail in our effort to get section 522 signed into law, we’ll try something else, but we won’t give up. It’s been seven years already; it may be seven more years before we feel like homeschool grads have a level path to military service. We may have to start listening to our opponents better, and we may have to win over some folks who don’t like the way we’ve done things in the past.

That’s the key, Scott. HSLDA has a habit of springing bills on the rest of the community, without even a BTW. You bring the fierce opposition down upon yourselves. Perhaps if you sat down (metaphorically speaking) with some of the leaders of national groups and together laid out a strategy for addressing issues, maybe you’d get things done quicker than 7-14 years. As it is today, I think 522 is already history. And HONDA is, of course, DOA. So what have you earned other than a bunch of ill-will among a large part of the community?


Comment by
Scott W. Somerville
December 14th, 2005
at 3:14 pm

When you say “522 is already history,” do you mean it’s already practically signed into law, or it’s already toast?


Comment by
J Aron
December 14th, 2005
at 3:43 pm

Scott… When will you ever get it?
You didn’t even tell your own HSLDA members that you were planning on having the Secretary of Defense make up a federal definition of homeschooling. Your organization has the audacity to lobby Warner and Santorum’s office with language that was unnecessary especially in light of the memo put out by the DoD in JANUARY 2005!!! and not even tell your own paying members that tidbit of information. Talk about communicating with other homeschool groups … sheesh you don’t even talk to your own!

So tell me .. despite the military memorandum of January 2005 – you still won’t give up what?? give up your ongoing quest to federally codify and regulate homeschooling? or your quest to become the Federal Department of Homeschooling?

I am interested to know what other misinformation your lobbyists have been feeding Congressional delegates. I see the cracks of mistrust forming between you and some Congressional delegates because they see now that you guys don’t represent all there is about homeschooling in this country, and you haven’t been giving them correct information. You can’t even muster putting out correct information on your website for each state regarding their laws (CT’s is still worng!) Congressional people are trying to be helpful and sympathetic to homeschool issues (even though we all know anything about homeschooling doesn’t belong in the federal arena) and you are manipulating that sympathy for your own organizational gain. Shame on you!


Comment by
Daryl
December 14th, 2005
at 4:12 pm

When you say “522 is already history,” do you mean it’s already practically signed into law, or it’s already toast?

…with jam and butter.


Comment by
Ron
December 14th, 2005
at 5:04 pm

…with jam and butter.

Excellent news.


Comment by
Daryl
December 14th, 2005
at 5:08 pm

It’s still only a rumor.


Comment by
COD
December 14th, 2005
at 5:59 pm

Ron must be worried about our laws applying once we invade Canada ;)


Comment by
Daryl
December 14th, 2005
at 6:15 pm

Well, we’d better do it soon. ‘Cause at the rate we’re running up debt, they’ll be able to buy the whole country by ’08 or so.


Pingback from
News and Commentary » Blindsiding
December 14th, 2005
at 7:03 pm

[...] Over at Daryl’s place, Mr. Somerville has said he doesn’t want anyone to feel blindsided by "what happens" concerning legislation to allow homeschool grads to enlist without having to take a GED or get 15 credit hours at the college level.  Concerning the Army, though, there doesn’t need to be a GED or 15 credit hours if the homeschool program meets the Army’s requirements.  I got it straight from the recruiter when I drove over today and sat in his office.  (no, I didn’t enlist, but I sure felt a yearning)  There is also the DoD memorandum from January 2005 that says the same thing. [...]


Comment by
Mary Hud
December 14th, 2005
at 10:09 pm

“We may have to start listening to our opponents better, and we may have to win over some folks who don’t like the way we’ve done things in the past. This issue is important enough to HSLDA that we might even be willing to eat humble pie if that’s what it takes to get the job done.”

Please listen to your opponents on this one, Scott. We don’t need Section 522 to get our kids into the military. We also don’t *want* Section 522. There is no reason to create a *special class* of people called *homeschoolers*.

Institutional education uniquely prepares individuals for the conformity required to be successful in the military. Furthermore, each branch of the military has a different mission, and should be free to recruit based on the type of individual who would be most successful at accomplishing that mission. Section 522 doesn’t level the playing field for homeschoolers, it puts every branch of the military in the position of ignoring its mission when evaluating homeschooled recruits.

And why didn’t you put out an e-lert on this language if it is so important?


Comment by
Scott W. Somerville
December 15th, 2005
at 6:04 pm

As far as I know, section 522 is still alive and kicking, but Daryl may know something I don’t know. We’ll see–it’s a good test of how well the different wings of the homeschool movement are doing at mastering the political process.

As for Judy’s argument that HSLDA hasn’t even included its own member in this process, I’d suggest you go take a look at the “military issues” section of the HSLDA website. We’ve been talking, writing, and emailing about this issue for about seven years now. To the best of my knowledge we have been both clear and consistent from the first: we want homeschool grads to be able to enlist without having to get a GED or take college credits.

The language in section 522 would require all the branches of the military to use the same policy for recruiting and enlisting homeschool grads. They currently use the same “policy,” so to speak, for traditional school graduates. We aren’t saying the military can’t require special skills for fighter pilots, or nuclear technicians. They can and do.

IF section 522 goes down in flames, I will be back here eating crow and begging for help. I don’t expect people to be particular kind to me, when and if that happens. But I’ll still be here, still trying to figure out a way to make sure homeschoolers can equitably enlist if they want to.


Comment by
J Aron
December 15th, 2005
at 7:01 pm

Scott – your duplicity is disgusting.
Your members don’t know that you inserted 522 into the appropriations bill and you only came out with a memo yesterday about it.
You never informed any of your members about the Jan 2005 DoD memo either. There is no need for the codification you are seeking and you know it.
If HSLDA members had any idea about how you are spending their membership fees they would not be too pleased.

So tell me Scott, what high paying position will you be seeking in the Federal Department of Homeschooling? To hell with homeschool rights – you are merely concerned with feathering your own nest. You don’t give a damn about communicating better with anyone except those who will help you and your self-serving agendas.


Comment by
Daryl
December 15th, 2005
at 7:08 pm

Good luck. HSLDA gives us all a big “Fuck You” and then you expect to be able to ask for help? Do y’all realize how pissed off everyone is at these tactics? I know you’re all lawyers, but still– how do you sleep at night?


Comment by
Mary Hud
December 15th, 2005
at 7:33 pm

“IF section 522 goes down in flames, I will be back here eating crow and begging for help. I don’t expect people to be particular kind to me, when and if that happens. But I’ll still be here, still trying to figure out a way to make sure homeschoolers can equitably enlist if they want to.”

You have been getting all the help you need, Scott. Homeschoolers do not want Section 522, nor do they need it. The whole opposition to this language, which according to my most recent conversation with Zach Moore in Senator Santorum’s office has been substantial, is from homeschoolers who realize that they already may enlist in the military.

You are going to have to demonstrate that homeschoolers need – and want – your help to enlist. I just don’t see it anywhere but in your protestations. Truth by blatant assertion isn’t very reliable.


Comment by
Ron
December 15th, 2005
at 10:00 pm

it’s a good test of how well the different wings of the homeschool movement are doing at mastering the political process.

And that’s what protecting homeschooling HSLDA is all about.

Daryl: our debt situation isn’t alot better than yours. We just have more natural resources left :-/


Pingback from
Atypical Homeschool.net » Mixed Bag
December 15th, 2005
at 11:00 pm

[...] There’s a conversation going on over at Daryl’s about Bill 522. I couldn’t resist joining the fray. [...]


Comment by
Natalie
December 16th, 2005
at 12:55 am

Scooter, I answered an email from one of HSLDA’s befuddled members asking, why–if this was such a big deal–couldn’t she find anything on HSLDA’s website about these bills? She was skeptical and in your corner, doubting that HSLDA would do such a thing as slip its members a legislative mickie. She’d even attached the press release HSLDA issued yesterday to her email, so apparently HSLDA’s involvement was not clear.

Hopefully, I connected the dots for her. It’s the fourth such email/post/communication I’ve written this week. After all, clarification is in everyone’s best interest, nes pas?

Natalie


Comment by
Natalie
December 16th, 2005
at 1:24 am

Btw, the HSLDA member referenced above is/was “befuddled” through no fault of her own. She just couldn’t find answers when she went directly to the source, then thought that the lack of incriminating information was “proof” that we were either alarmists or making it up. Furthermore, her question was forwarded to me through three other channels. I don’t seek this stuff out, for the record.

It may warm the cockles of Scott’s heart to know that I was very diplomatic in my responses, even pointing out that this anti-reg activists would line up with and fight alongside HSLDA *if* the organization was “defending homeschool freedom” by opposing federal legislation. But it’s not. It’s writing it.

Natalie


Comment by
speedwell
December 16th, 2005
at 2:52 am

Don’t forget that HSLDA members trust that their organization will protect their freedom to homeschool without unnecessary and burdensome regulation. If you no longer wish to protect that freedom, then, to put it bluntly, you need to go into some other line of business.

If 522 passes and many of your members who trust you and cherish their liberty call upon you to help them protect their homeschooling choices, what are you going to do? Stick your fingers in your ears and laugh?

I’m so glad I found out about this before my two nieces with babies signed up with you. I was going to pay their fees. Maybe I ought to save the money until I find another organization that won’t renege on their commitment to all homeschoolers, not just future soldiers and their families.


Comment by
Mary Nix
December 16th, 2005
at 11:27 am

Natalie wrote:

#

Btw, the HSLDA member referenced above is/was “befuddled” through no fault of her own. She just couldn’t find answers when she went directly to the source, then thought that the lack of incriminating information was “proof” that we were either alarmists or making it up. Furthermore, her question was forwarded to me through three other channels. I don’t seek this stuff out, for the record.

Natalie

Another bit of proof that HSLDA was involved can be found at the THOMAS legislative site. If you click on the Congressional Record for the HR 3753/S.1691, you will
read that HONDA was used to introduce the amendment on-

9/13/2005:
Referred to House Armed Services

9/20/2005:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel.

If you object to the amendment, contact Sen. Warners office TODAY and ask that it be struck before it leaves committee.

Mary
homeed.../?p=36


Comment by
Valerie
December 16th, 2005
at 11:58 am

>>>As for Judy’s argument that HSLDA hasn’t even included its own member in this process, I’d suggest you go take a look at the “military issues” section of the HSLDA website. We’ve been talking, writing, and emailing about this issue for about seven years now.


Comment by
Valerie
December 16th, 2005
at 11:59 am

I hate it when my quotations cut off the rest of the comment. (2nd time; slow learner)

Read the quotation above, and now, what I also included.

=====================================
milita...s.com/ (that’s my ‘pointer URL)
Following Thanksgiving, an online friend of mine in Ohio, Mary, sat down at her computer and did a random check of Thomas, the federal website containing “legislative information from the Library of Congress.” She was doing her routine look for any mention of ‘homeschooling’ in pending federal legislation. What she found was a shock.

For the third time in two years, again without notice to the national homeschooling community, proposed federal legislation affecting homeschoolers was introduced into Congress. This third time it wasn’t announced after-the-fact as was the previous two times.

Buried deep in the 700+ pages of the National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2006, was a section labeled Recruiting and Enlistment of Home Schoolers. Mary forwarded her copying of this section, # 522, to me, asking what I thought of it. I asked where she got it. She said she found it at Thomas. When did it get put in to the Congressional Record, I asked. On the 3rd of October. It turns out that was the same day Harriet Meiers was nominated for the Supreme Court. Oh. I guess that would overshadow most legislation.
=====================================
home.k...on.htm (same site; page URL)
gpoacc...e.html
Congressional Record online
3 Oct 2005
search for page S10815, 2005 Oct 03rd Senator Santorum introduces home school section, Section 522 into National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2006
Section 522
Also: Page S10838 frwebg...record
Page S10839 frwebg...record
=====================================
HSLDA October Archive
hslda....2F2005
10/4/2005 Transcript Boot Camp coming to Northern Virginia
10/5/2005 Wisconsin–Annual Notice Reminder
10/5/2005 Virginia–Negotiations Begin on Virginia Beach PSAT Denial
10/5/2005 HSLDA’s Weekly Update–October 5, 2005
10/6/2005 Missouri–Defending a Family’s Right to Privacy at the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals
10/6/2005 HSLDA’s Homeschooling Thru High School Newsletter — October 2005
10/11/2005 Virginia–Parent-Taught Driver Education Program Approved
10/11/2005 Massachusetts–Calls Needed to Defend Homeschool Freedom
10/12/2005 HSLDA’s Weekly Update–October 12, 2005
10/17/2005 Pennsylvania–Calls Needed For Homeschool Bill
10/18/2005 New York–Calls and Emails Needed Now to Stop Mandatory Early Education
10/18/2005 HSLDA’s Weekly Update–October 18, 2005
10/25/2005 HSLDA’s Weekly Update–October 25, 2005
=====================================
hslda....57.asp
Topics for October 5, 2005

1. HSLDA’s Philadelphia National Conference
2. Attempt to Crush Private School Option Fails
3. Form Trumps Substance in Kansas
4. Home School Heartbeat – Classical Writing
5. Generation Joshua – Teen Program at HSLDA’s National Conference

Plus: Homeschooling in the News
=====================================
Topics for October 12, 2005

1. Defending a Family’s Rights at the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals
2. Wisconsin School District Mandates False Deadline
3. Tipp City Schools Demand Birth Certificates
4. Help Homeschoolers by Letting us Know Where you Shop Online
5. Home School Heartbeat – The Spiritual Power of Mothers
6. Generation Joshua – Deadline is November 1 for Benjamin Rush Awards

Plus: Homeschooling in the News
=====================================
Topics for October 18, 2005

1. Washington Times Op-ed–Suspicion Can Bring Intrusions on Family
2. Colonial Beach School District Principal Steps Out of Bounds
3. School District Seeks Social Security Numbers
4. Compliance with State Guidelines Not Mandatory
5. Home School Heartbeat – Interview with Vickie Farris
6. Generation Joshua – Ready to Act in Virginia

Plus: Homeschooling in the News
=====================================
Topics for October 25, 2005

1. The Dr. Phil Show
2. Homeschool Family Prevails Without Probation in Franklin County
3. District Adds Unauthorized Requirements
4. Calling all HSLDA Member Moms!
5. Home School Foundation Included in Combined Federal Campaign
6. Home School Heartbeat – The Value of Volunteering
7. Generation Joshua – Clubs Continue to Grow

Plus: Homeschooling in the News
=====================================


Comment by
Daryl
December 16th, 2005
at 12:40 pm

On the not insignificant chance that the amendment hasn’t been pulled, I called Warner’s office a few minutes ago. They’re getting lots of phone calls about it.

Senator John Warner – 202-224-2023


Comment by
Helen
December 16th, 2005
at 12:59 pm

Real life has thrown me for a loop and I’ve been offline more than online recently (still following these developments intently), but I’m greatly heartened to come here and read the no-nonsense interactions, Daryl. Thanks for being at the forefront of this situation.


Comment by
Scott W. Somerville
December 16th, 2005
at 2:07 pm

I admire the hard work you guys have put into stopping section 522. Whether or not 522 goes through or goes down in flames, I’m genuinely impressed by the organization and effectiveness I’ve seen this time around.

I’m warming up the oven to bake my crow!


Comment by
Natalie
December 16th, 2005
at 2:32 pm

I’ve been trying to call Sen. Warner’s office for the last two hours. After several 10-minute periods of hitting FLASH and REDIAL, his line is still busy. Considering our ability to mobilize and the fact that many HSLDA members I know aren’t too concerned, I’m guessing those are our folks on the line.

Natalie


Comment by
COD
December 16th, 2005
at 9:41 pm

I just faxed my letter to Sen. Warner, and I live in his state, so he damn well better listen!


Comment by
Natalie
December 17th, 2005
at 12:12 am

Question: Is the McCain torture ban also a part of HR 1815?


Pingback from
News and Commentary » Sec 522 blog activities
December 17th, 2005
at 12:34 am

[...] Daryl is cooking again, as usual: [...]


Comment by
Mary Nix
December 17th, 2005
at 7:01 am

Natalie asked:

Question: Is the McCain torture ban also a part of HR 1815?

Yes.

Mary


Comment by
Natalie
December 18th, 2005
at 3:00 am

Thanks, Mary. Jeanne and I were talking about it a few days ago and were unsure.


Comment by
Mary Nix
December 18th, 2005
at 1:03 pm

Yes Natalie, there are many controversial additions to this bill.

Here is the contact info for the house conferees. Mary

– HOUSE MEMBERS ON CONFERENCE COMMITTEE

Duncan Hunter (R – CA) (Chair of Armed Services)
Phone: (202) 225-5672

Curt Weldon (R – PA)
Phone: (202) 225-2011

Joel Hefley (R – CO)
Phone: (202) 225-4422

Jim Saxton (R – NJ)
Phone: (202) 225-4765

John M. McHugh (R – NY)
Phone: (202) 225-4611

Terry Everett (R – AL)
Phone: (202) 225-2901

Roscoe G. Bartlett (R – MD)
Phone: (202) 225-2721

Howard P. “Buck” McKeon (R – CA)
Phone: (202) 225-1956

Mac Thornberry (R – TX)
Phone: (202) 225-3706

John N. Hostettler (R – IN)
Phone: (202) 225-4636

Jim Ryun (R – KS)
Phone: (202) 225-6601

Jim Gibbons (R – NV)
Phone: (202) 225-6155

Robin Hayes (R – NC)
Phone: (202) 225-3715

Ken Calvert (R – CA)
Phone: (202) 225-1986

Rob Simmons (R – CT)
Phone: (202) 225-2076

Thelma D. Drake (R – VA)
Phone: (202) 225-4215

Ike Skelton (D – MO)
Phone: (202) 225-2876

John M. Spratt Jr. (D – SC)
Phone: (202) 225-5501

Solomon P. Ortiz (D – TX)
Phone: (202) 225-7742

Lane Evans (D – IL)
Phone: (202) 225-5905

Gene Taylor (D – MS)
Phone: (202) 225-5772

Neil Abercrombie (D – HI)
Phone: (202) 225-2726

Martin T. Meehan (D – MA)
Phone: (202) 225-3411

Silvestre Reyes (D – TX)
Phone: (202) 225-4831

Vic Snyder (D – AR)
Phone: (202) 225-2506

Adam Smith (D – WA)
Phone: (202) 225-8901

Loretta Sanchez (D – CA)
Phone: (202) 225-2965

Ellen O. Tauscher (D – CA)
Phone: (202) 225-1880


Pingback from
Homeschool NonDiscrimination Act of 2005 – A2Z Homeschooling - A2Z Homeschooling | A2Z Homeschooling
March 31st, 2012
at 7:08 pm

[...] Under a special test program, the Army is now treating home school graduates as educational Tier I, the same educational category as high school diploma-holders. [...]