Utterly Meaningless » Blog Archive » DAMN TRAITORS!

DAMN TRAITORS!

Filed at 7:19 am under by dcobranchi

No, not the NYT. HEKs. Check out the Hed of the Day:

Home-schooled students defecting to online learning programs

66 Responses to “DAMN TRAITORS!”


Comment by
JJ Ross
August 24th, 2006
at 11:23 pm

My 11-year-old son wants Pluto back as a regular planet, concerned that it’s been diminished somehow by today’s official change in name and status. He seems to feel dimished too, a little, ormaybe just let down or disappointed? Something that matters to him about the label change, though I’m sure the planet formerly known as Pluto cares not a bit.
Dunno what that means if anything, but — hey!
Does “dwarf homeschooling” work for anybody??


Comment by
JJ Ross
August 24th, 2006
at 11:39 pm

The earlier proposal said that to be a planet, a body need only be round and orbit the sun. Under that definition, there would have been dozens of new planets added to the solar system (wow – do we have room for all that??) something the astronomers gathered in Prague refused to accept. . .
“Poor little Pluto,” said Patricia Tombaugh, the 93-year-old widow of the man who discovered Pluto, Clyde Tombaugh. “Kids are going to be upset.”


Comment by
Annette
August 25th, 2006
at 8:47 am

JJ,
Do you understand that I want to honor your point of disagreeement? I don’t want to shut it down, send it to the dark side of the moon, or disrespect your opinion or you. I want to photograph it and put it in a nice frame and offer it as a means for better understanding the issues.

You mention “better efforts” that are being contradicted. I have asked you what are those better efforts that are being contradicted and whose are they. You will not answer. There is contradiction going on here, but it is not your efforts that are being contradicted. All you have put forth here and other places about the “difficult disagreement” (not sure specifically what you think that is) is contention and negative communication tactics. You have left me no choice, but to find someone else that may better represent and communicate a viewpoint and position that is the same or similar to yours. I will look to build a communication bridge with those individuals–*if* there are individuals who represent the same or similar viewpoint as yours–whatever that is other than you object everytime certain hs advocates type a word about the hs/ps issue. You attempt to appear as advocates for ps-at-home folks, but I’m not sure that is what they want. If some do, I’d like the chance to persuade them, by holding up places like this comment section, that it isn’t a good choice if the purpose is better understanding between hsers & psers-at-home is the goal. You participation in this topic only serves to deepen any divide that exists between hsers & psers-at-home. Who needs that or wants that?


Comment by
Nance Confer
August 25th, 2006
at 10:06 am

Annette:
I never got an answer about whose efforts are being contradicted. What would be those better efforts? Who is the difficult disagreement really with? What is the difficult disagreement? The fact that publc schooling is defined already which eliminates defining ps-at-home programs as hsing too? The objection being to hs advocates clarifiying ps-at-home programs (NOT people) are not hsing programs?

JJ:
Ooh – a challenge! Love a challenge.
1)Talking to parents and the public as if HSing law were very little of what matters, just a bit of modern social red tape.
2)Among real hsers and real hs advocates.
3)Can’t answer – it makes no sense to me as put
4)The objection being that the help is more confusing and legally wrong than the problem it purports to cure. Tehreby making things worse.

Me:
JJ can only post and hope you will take the time to read. I can only do the same. We have repeatedly explained, pointed to links, etc. That you don’t see what is in front of you or don’t understand what it says . . . well. . . good luck in finding others to talk to about this.

Nance


Comment by
Annette
August 25th, 2006
at 10:59 am

I stated:
I never got an answer about whose efforts are being contradicted.

Let me try again:

Whose efforts are being contradicted? Specifically who? JJ Ross’ and Nance Confer’s efforts?

I asked:
What would be those better efforts?

JJ:
1)Talking to parents and the public as if HSing law were very little of what matters, just a bit of modern social red tape.

Annette asked:
Who is the difficult disagreement really with?

JJ:
2)Among real hsers and real hs advocates.

Annette asked:
What is the difficult disagreement?

JJ:
3)Can’t answer – it makes no sense to me as put

JJ:
The fact that publc schooling is defined already which eliminates defining ps-at-home programs as hsing too?

Annette asked:
The objection being to hs advocates clarifiying ps-at-home programs (NOT people) are not hsing programs?

JJ: The objection being that the help is more confusing and legally wrong than the problem it purports to cure. Tehreby making things worse.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#3. What is the difficult disagreement?

The term difficult disagreement is JJ’s. If she doesn’t know what she means by that, how is anyone else to suppose to know?

Nance, you do well holding JJ’s hands. She’s lucky to have you there for her. If we could all be so blessed–NOT!


Comment by
Annette
August 25th, 2006
at 11:03 am

Error. Correction to #4:

Annette:
The fact that publc schooling is defined already which eliminates defining ps-at-home programs as hsing too? The objection being to hs advocates clarifiying ps-at-home programs (NOT people) are not hsing programs?

JJ: The objection being that the help is more confusing and legally wrong than the problem it purports to cure. Tehreby making things worse.


Comment by
Nance Confer
August 25th, 2006
at 12:10 pm

Grow up, Annette.

The questions have been answered. At last you have read the answers. They are not what you want? Too bad. Do you think continuing to ask the same people the same questions will get a different result?

I suggest you go with your plan of looking for other people to bother.

Nance


Comment by
Annette
August 25th, 2006
at 12:28 pm

Well, I guess we can see JJ is allowing Nance to be her mouthpiece again, and it must be that JJ isn’t up to the challenge of answering *all* my questions after all.

Here’s a small hint concerning who you both work at contradicting:

homest...1.html
**snip**
Commentary on the legal differences between ALPs, or Parent Partnership Programs and Homeschooling.
To know the difference is not a judgement.
It is necessary in order to provide the best option for your family

washho...d.html
**snip**
Home-based Instruction vs Alternative Learning Exp. Programs


Comment by
Nance Confer
August 25th, 2006
at 12:54 pm

Maybe JJ is having a life. 🙂

And I’m off to have one too.

As usual, this has been a complete waste of time and energy, Annette.

I hope you can find someone who can answer your questions to your satisfaction — or maybe you have. Maybe these two links satisfy you. Great!!

Have a good day!

Nance


Comment by
JJ Ross
August 25th, 2006
at 12:55 pm

Give a girl a chance to write! Been blogging this at length . . . Sam is included since he’s new, hope he doesn’t mind.
For those who just read headlines, here it is, no need to follow the link:
“DWARFING PLUTO And Shrinking Ourselves, A Joyfully Unclear Meditation”


Comment by
Annette
August 25th, 2006
at 1:12 pm

JJ wrote: political campaign’s concept is so simple — simpleminded really…

Making a distinction between ps and hsing is the modus operandi of many statewide hs organizations, hs advocates and hsers in general.


Comment by
JJ Ross
August 25th, 2006
at 1:44 pm

ROFL! Everybody’s doing it?
Raise your hand if you’ve heard THAT one before . . .
The Well-Trained Mind classical homeschooling curriculum explains this logical fallacy very clearly. Maybe not for an 8-year-old but I bet most hsing parents could understand it . . .


Comment by
Annette
August 25th, 2006
at 2:17 pm

Yeah, I’m laughing too. It a barrel of laughs here.

Again, you wrote about better efforts and that they were being contradicted. So far I have tried to point out that the contradiction is by you and Nance when it is the modus operandi of many hs advocates (as seen by on many hs sites). Should we engage in data collection comparing the states that have ps-at-home programs with the statewide homeschool organizations of that state making the distinctions?
Sure would like it if the Idealist would answer the questions.
“Idealist Homeschool Advocacy” will it get anything done or keep hsing free? That’s the question.


Comment by
JJ Ross
August 25th, 2006
at 3:11 pm

Did you catch this part about John Holt’s ideals?

“I wonder if home education as a movement with lobbyists and magazines, catalogues and conferences and church study groups, was ever about the kids either. Once it began morphing toward politics and the law, I mean, defining away John Holt’s ideals of not defining anything or anyone by how they choose to learn, and of cooperating happily with “school” for the benefit of our own children, whenever we wish. I wonder if homeschooling/home education understands anything more of its own wonder and power, than all this simple-minded schoolish labeling and forced choice, legal definitions and penalties, rote drilling at the lowest kind of knowledge Bloom described. “

Obviously we don’t have to agree on this either. Helen Hegener once gave me the veteran-to-whippersnapper Lloyd Bentsen slapdown of Quayle, when I dared express my own passion for Holt. (I knew John Holt, John Holt was a friend of mine etc . . .)

Collect all the data and authority in the world and it still can’t prove there’s only one way to view planets, or Holt, or homeschooling, or the Constitution and truth, beauty, justice and the American way, while all the other ways are wrong . . .and would you really want it to?? That’s what home educating as we see fit is supposed to MEAN –and if I were writing a definition for us all, it would!
(But I don’t define, don’t ask me. . .)


Comment by
Daryl Cobranchi
August 25th, 2006
at 4:58 pm

Collect all the data and authority in the world and it still can’t prove there’s only one way to view planets, or Holt

JJ–

I think it’s Holst who wrote “The Planets,” not Holt. 🙂

And, with that, I think this horse is not only dead, but the corpse is now bloated and smells quite ripe. How ’bout we all declare victory and go home?


Comment by
Annette
August 25th, 2006
at 6:15 pm

Yes, Daryl, I’m done. It is clear, JJ has no interest in giving up her baggage for the interest of whatever it is she disagrees about here. All hope is dead as well. False alarm.

If there are psers-at-home that would like to speak for themselves (rather than JJ and Nance doing that for them), I welcome any and all to the NCSW list. groups.../ncsw/
Also, I welcome emails if anyone (except JJ & Nance) would like to share their thoughts. :
ajcjdm@yahoo.com