Utterly Meaningless » Blog Archive » NO! NO! NO!
  • NO! NO! NO!

    Filed at 7:54 pm under by dcobranchi

    I still lean libertarian enough to call this out as a horrible idea.

    “A relatively new group, Service Nation, is planning to kick off a campaign with a Summit for “National Service” on September 11,” reports Jim Lindgren of the legal site Volokh Conspiracy.

    [snip]

    The campaign appears to be pretty Obama-friendly, jibing with his recent call for a national service bureaucracy that’s “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the military. Of course, McCain has certainly expressed an appreciation for the “a cause greater than yourself” mindset too, including a fondness for­–quite literally–­the sight of uniformed cadres of young people preparing for a day of service with calisthenics in the public square.

    I don’t care if the campaign is giving Obama a big slobbery kiss. Requiring “national service” is just wrong. And probably unconstitutional.

    10 Responses to “NO! NO! NO!”


    Comment by
    Alasandra
    July 24th, 2008
    at 12:49 am

    Sick, Sick, Sick

    And how are the people giving the required ‘national service’ suppose to earn a living wage?


    Comment by
    Nance Confer
    July 24th, 2008
    at 7:16 am

    And is there a chance in hell that any such requirement would ever become law? Or is this a fight over the use of money as incentive?

    Nance


    Comment by
    Daryl Cobranchi
    July 24th, 2008
    at 7:40 am

    I think it could become law. I have no problem paying people for service as long as said service is really voluntary.

    We had a draft for 30 years even when we weren’t at war. Who’s to say it won’t happen again?


    Comment by
    JJ Ross
    July 24th, 2008
    at 11:13 am

    Well, hmmm, I’d like to see the philosophical framework for it justified, the argument laid out — I might have to do it myself? — so I can see how they’re maintaining it would fit it into our citizenship rights and responsibilities generally. Several things jump to mind that I would work up, if I were doing a staff report on this as proposed legislation, or some such.

    A little help, some links and sources?


    Comment by
    JJ Ross
    July 24th, 2008
    at 11:15 am

    SHould I admit the very first thing that came to mind was reading Heinlein as a teenager? 😉


    Comment by
    Valerie
    July 25th, 2008
    at 12:41 pm

    Re: the non-wartime draft, I wonder how the present demographic makeup of the services compares with the makeup then. ‘Back then’ people from more walks of life entered into the military system than do now. (I won’t say ‘all’ because even then, rhip and deferments for the right people were probably available for the asking)

    Could the mess, characterized by the situation at the AF Academy that Mikey Weinstein is combating, have been averted if a greater variety of people had an incentive to avoid serving in the Army? ;>

    The all volunteer service might have created a ‘superheated solution’ of ‘patriots’ in the military that favors even greater lockstep thinking than the military is usually blamed for having.

    I’m *not* in favor of a draft**, but I think stuff such as HSLDA getting their acronym as part of an official Army URL is one of the unintended consequences of the lack of a more representative slice of the population than currently joins the military. Granted, that URL was not the end of the world, but the right wing religious influence has changed the formerly across-the-board religious neutrality of the military.

    ** the unwilling make for a lot of internal dissention — “Fightback” was a mimeographed underground magazine at one place my husband was stationed in the mid-70s, and the fighting-back was against ‘The Man.’ The “Overseas Weekly” was a larger, country-wide version with roughly the same targeted reading audience.

    Internal anti-war resistance during Vietnam was another source of dissention:
    sirnos...1.html

    The blindness has been the incapacity of the [anti-war] Movement to see that, over the past three years the anti-war resistance inside the US armed forces (Rita) has been growing, has become a major, perhaps the most important, front in the war against the war, in the war against the system.

    No, I don’t know how to strike a balance.

    No, I don’t see mandatory national service as something that would play out relatively painlessly.

    Ymmv


    Comment by
    JJ Ross
    July 25th, 2008
    at 3:51 pm

    Thanks, Valerie, that’s the kind of thing I grapple with too, nothing’s ever easy, is it?

    And think about how much those (very real) effects track what happens in our education “draft” depending on how universal and therefore diverse and representative school populations are, versus how easily avoided and therefore unrepresentative and problematic, even dangerous to our liberties, they become.

    And like you, I still come down on the side of private freedoms but not without anguish and not because I’m blind to what it costs.


    Comment by
    Daryl Cobranchi
    July 25th, 2008
    at 4:05 pm

    I have little doubt that the military is more politicized than it was “back then” and WAY more than I’m comfortable with. How many Op/Eds did the WaPo run by senior officers attempting to influence the 2004 and 2006 elections? I expect that we’ll see some more before November. And I hope that when Obama wins he shitcans every single one of the generals who has forgotten that they serve the civilian government, and not the other way around.


    Comment by
    Valerie
    July 26th, 2008
    at 11:38 am

    Maybe those senior officers are serving the civilian leadership, if not the civilian government.

    [shivers]


    Comment by
    Daryl Cobranchi
    July 26th, 2008
    at 12:01 pm

    Down that road lie fascism and military dictatorships. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that M. Farris is enamored of (obsessed with?) the military and he’s a Dominionist. “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.” — Sinclair Lewis