Utterly Meaningless

“And then if all those poor people worked more hours they could afford to come live in our neighborhood! Wouldn’t that be great!”

Trying to picture these “Christians” saying anything close to that.

Nance

“I recall Jesus saying something about feeding the poor. Why do the “Christians” at ONN hate Jesus?”

Setting aside that I think the ONN people are nuts too, I know their answer.

Feeding the poor is fine and dandy. The argument is about the means of collection and distribution. Some folks think there’s a better way than having a govt confiscate wealth under the threat of violence, lose a quarter of it, waste another quarter, and ensure poverty continues across generations with the rest of it.

My personal opinion is a bit more temperate than that, but probably not much more in y’alls eyes.

Rob

Rob, my personal experience has been that too many of them are among the least likely I know to actually go into a poor area and help. So what exactly are they doing? They don’t want the government doing it, they don’t want to get personally involved and darn but that statement Daryl quoted sure sounds like “It’s all their own fault, and they should just take care of themselves.” I don’t remember anywhere in my bible where Jesus judged the reasons behind the needs of the people he helped.

I know it’s not every one who calls himself or herself a Christian, but there are way too many there who are like this given the basic tenents of Jesus’ teachings. Many who aren’t like this really seem to have blinders about the fact that many of their brethren are behaving in this way.

It’s especially rich coming from Christians who have giant churches that get some serious benefits from tax exemption who only support those in need who join their church community.

Maybe we should fund these types of government initiatives by taking away the tax exemptions from religious institutions. I’d rather my taxes go to programs that help people than to paying for the community services provided to churches which are tax exempt.

I’m amazed this talking sphincter didn’t suggest “A Modest Proposal.”

“It’s especially rich coming from Christians who have giant churches that get some serious benefits from tax exemption who only support those in need who join their church community.”

Like the Catholic schools in the inner city where most of the poor kids aren’t Catholic? Like the four soup kitchens the (affluent) Lutheran church by my house supports? Like the second collection they take almost every week for food or the bags of food people take to the altar every service?

No, Class Factotum.

More like C Street and Saddleback.

No CF – just like the person quoted. Just because you don’t see this in your little corner of the world doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. If you’ll notice, I did say it wasn’t all. Apparently, you wear just the blinders I was mentioning. Thanks for your demonstration.

“Rob, my personal experience has been that too many of them are among the least likely I know to actually go into a poor area and help. So what exactly are they doing? They don’t want the government doing it, they don’t want to get personally involved and darn but that statement Daryl quoted sure sounds like “It’s all their own fault, and they should just take care of themselves.” I don’t remember anywhere in my bible where Jesus judged the reasons behind the needs of the people he helped.”

Wow. This is wrong on so many levels. Most Christian church’s give back to the community. Recently my church dedicated an entire weekend to helping the community. Members signed up for the soup kitchens, cleaning up the neighborhood, helping the poor with auto maintenance, deilvering groceries to poor families, etc… My church has 3000 members. They encouraged each member to work at least 5 hours. That’s 15,00 man hours towards helping the poor. If there is anything I know about Christians is they give back.

I don’t suppose you give 10% of your earnings to an orginization that goes out there and does missions trips to africa, feeds the hungry.. Maybe if you’d bother to step foot in a church you might get a better impression.

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“Oh noes! It seems to me that I recall Jesus saying something about feeding the poor.”

This is true. We are called to help the poor but the bible also calls for family to help family.

1 Timothy 5:8
“If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

You know. I found your site by doing a search on google regarding Rosetta Stone. That got me reading the rest of your site and I must say “You guys are bitter”

I didn’t get a chance to respond to a post regarding Palin being angry at the press for photoshoping a picture of her and her baby. But I want to say that the conservative press not once made fun of Chelsea Clinton and as far as I know has not attacked Obama’s daughters. It’s not that Palin’s baby is Christ! But it is her baby and I would assume none of you would like your children made fun of on a playground let alone in front of the nation. There are so many others ways to attack a person. Character, actions, ethics. Not by attacking an innocent child.

“But I want to say that the conservative press not once made fun of Chelsea Clinton and as far as I know has not attacked Obama’s daughters.”

I call “Bullshit!” Limbaugh did. And McCain (although not a member of the press).

I didn’t get a chance to respond to a post regarding Palin being angry at the press for photoshoping a picture of her and her baby.

And if you believe that photoshop was making fun of her baby, you’re an idiot. It put the head of a politician on her baby’s body. Do you think that, perhaps, it might have been making fun of the politician?

I read it was the head of a conservative media personality in Alaska (radio shock jock type) who panders shamelessly to Palin in all things, being caricatured in that photo as a dependent member of her family . . .

I remember those vicious nacho-conservative jokes about Chelsea Clinton when she was young. Some of those conservative white guys guys are misogynist as well as dominionist and racist. Hmmm, maybe Ruben chose that patriarchal pseudonym as a sort of sly man-power editorial? — did you know Daryl, that Ruben means “behold, a son?”

Lol, nacho conservative?? (we could make up some fun definitions for that.)

I meant to type macho-conservative.

JJ,

You’re correct. I mis-remembered the “baby.” Same diff, though. Palin is either very dumb or was lying to her followers. Probably both.

I think she lies like breathing, like the C Street men lie to their wives, because they believe themselves the New Chosen to take over the warth and rule it.

Is it the “warth” to them where we live on the “earth?”

It sounds about right to me. 🙂

Ruben, why were you looking for Rosetta Stone? Are the tax dollars your church didn’t pay this year sending you somewhere to “save” some foreigners?

Nance

Clever Nance! — yes, “warth” is a secret code word related both to “wrath” and “earth” and meaning they plan to rule the earth with their wrath, or something like that . . .

Ruben is apparently another who can’t grasp the notion that there is some meaning to the words “not all.”

Of course, he makes some assumptions about what I do with my time and money as well. He is right on one of them – I don’t donate to organizations that do mission trips to Africa or anywhere else. As for the rest, I bet I contribute far more than his 10 percent to helping and I bet my income is lower. My volunteering far exceeds 5 hours, happens more than one weekend a year and isn’t because someone else suggests it.

I’ve been inside plenty of Christian churches. My experience is that like humanity in general, they’re a mixed bag. My problem is that those that speak the loudest are too often the greediest and most obnoxious.

Bitter? No. Realistic, yes. Maybe it’s too many Christians who judge my family simply based on if we call ourselves Christian or not. I’ve experienced and watched this type stop talking to people because they found out they weren’t Christian (or even the “right” type of Christian!). No other reason. Turn off the switch in the middle of a conversation with someone they’ve been happily dealing with for months I have friends who are Christian too. They had a hard time accepting this sort of behavior happens until they personally watched it.

Just because the circle of Christians you are around are above average doesn’t mean all of those who identify as such are. Denying that the other type exists in our world in large numbers doesn’t change the fact that they are there and representing Christians too. Often loudly and stridently.

And Ruben’s claim about tithing to his church doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny either. Years ago I was a member of a church that really emphasized helping the poor and the community. The church set a goal to donate 10% of its income to the cause. This was pretty aggressive compared to national norms. So, Ruben’s tithe is cut by 10x and he’s probably actually donating no more than 1% of his income to actually helping people. And possibly much less than that.

Ruben, why were you looking for Rosetta Stone? Are the tax dollars your church didn’t pay this year sending you somewhere to “save” some foreigners?

No, my wife and I too homeschool our children and I was doing research on whether or not Rosetta Stone legally allows the software to be sold to another user once you’ve finished the lesson. This searching led me to your “Boycott Rosetta Stone” Blog and onto the rest of your lovely site. I’m not the mission trip kinda guy. I’m an IT consultant so I do computers and websites best. Not so much into the building houses for former sex trade workers as our church is doing in Bali. I gave money though!

Karen, in response to your response…. My church firmly believes and strongly encourages life on life with non-Christians. How else are to turn them to the DARK side? I hang out with plenty of non-christians and we have theological discussions all the time. My friends are mostly christians however and I believe you’ll understand why. Christians and non christians alike tend to befriend other people with the same beliefs, moral standards, etc to help encourage and validate one another. For example, I have children that I want to raise in the Christain faith. Do I place them with non-christians or with christians to encourage their beliefs? I’m sure you do the exact same thing with your children. Another way of looking at it would be. If you want to be rich do hang out with rich people or poor people? Who will best teach you?

I understand that non all christians are created equal. God gave us all free will and most people do not follow what god would want them to do. It’s all about point of views. Do you have a world view? Or a God view? I would make the argument that most Christians have a world view, not a God centered view. Thus, they might be hypocritical, mean, and judgmental or put off a sense of superiority towards non-believers. I believe as Christians we should be humble towards others but not weak in our beliefs and moral standards.

Can I ask a question? As atheist, what do you all rely upon to gauge your morality? Are we all just born with a sense of right and wrong? If so, were Hilter’s sense of right and wrong? How did he go so wrong?

Can I ask a question? As atheist, what do you all rely upon to gauge your morality? Are we all just born with a sense of right and wrong? If so, were Hilter’s sense of right and wrong? How did he go so wrong?

Since he was a Christian, perhaps you should answer that one first. But for me, I gauge my decisions on the Golden Rule. One needn’t invoke god to have a sense of empathy.

And as for Rosetta Stone’s EULA– I believe you have the legal right to re-sell the software. In fact, the disks are copy protected and the program won’t launch without having the CD in the drive. So I really don’t see that they’d have any kind of leg to stand on if you challenged them.

The problem was that eBay was deleting auctions based on RS’s complaint. That led to the boycott.

Actually, invoking god is is itself IMMORAL, both in my experience and throughout history. (Including but not limited to the Christian god views.)

Ruben, are you suggesting that if you weren’t a Christian you would’t know right from wrong?

If that’s the case, if that’s how close you are to committing mayhem, I’m happy you found Christ.

Nance

I agree with you Nance. The thought that there are people out there who feel that they would be out there doing horrible things if they weren’t Christian makes me happy that those people have found some external guide for their lives.

Reuben – again with the assumptions.

No, I don’t exclusively or even largely hang out with people of any one philosophical or religious belief. My friends are all over the place religiously, though through self selection on the other side, I will admit there are no fundamentalist, evangelical Christians. Since I’ve no intention of converting to their beliefs, I’m apparently not elibible for friendship there. I have friends across the economic spectrum as well. So no, I really don’t understand why you “hang” with plenty of non – Christians, but mostly have Christians for friends. You’re illustrating my point quite nicely actually. I don’t help people or befriend them so that I can convert them to my beliefs.

In case you’re keeping track, I’ve not called myself atheist. I’m probably more Epicurean in my world view, and would more likely label myself agnostic. Like Daryl, the Golden Rule or the Ethic of Reciprocity would be a good description for how I interact with people.