END AROUND?
What the heck does this mean? Scott Somerville noted on Kay’s listserv that they still hope to get Section 522 enacted into law. Let’s hope not.
UPDATE: Valerie has a lot more info.
34 Responses to “END AROUND?”
![]() Comment by Scott W. Somerville December 14th, 2005 at 1:40 pm |
Whether or not anybody agrees with HSLDA on this issue, I want to do all I can to make sure that nobody feels confused or blindsided by what happens. HSLDA has spent the last seven or eight years trying to make sure that homeschool grads can enlist in the military without having to take a GED or 15 college credits. (The Army has been eager to get HEKs but the Navy still tries to treat us like dropouts.) Section 522 is very close to what we’ve been pushing for all these years, and we are NOT just siting on our hands while the anti-522 forces do what they can to stop it. I can’t guarantee that HSLDA will be more effective than NHELD, etc., when it comes to getting this stuff through, but we’re giving it our best shot. IF we fail in our effort to get section 522 signed into law, we’ll try something else, but we won’t give up. It’s been seven years already; it may be seven more years before we feel like homeschool grads have a level path to military service. We may have to start listening to our opponents better, and we may have to win over some folks who don’t like the way we’ve done things in the past. This issue is important enough to HSLDA that we might even be willing to eat humble pie if that’s what it takes to get the job done. |
![]() Comment by Daryl December 14th, 2005 at 1:49 pm |
IF we fail in our effort to get section 522 signed into law, we’ll try something else, but we won’t give up. It’s been seven years already; it may be seven more years before we feel like homeschool grads have a level path to military service. We may have to start listening to our opponents better, and we may have to win over some folks who don’t like the way we’ve done things in the past. That’s the key, Scott. HSLDA has a habit of springing bills on the rest of the community, without even a BTW. You bring the fierce opposition down upon yourselves. Perhaps if you sat down (metaphorically speaking) with some of the leaders of national groups and together laid out a strategy for addressing issues, maybe you’d get things done quicker than 7-14 years. As it is today, I think 522 is already history. And HONDA is, of course, DOA. So what have you earned other than a bunch of ill-will among a large part of the community? |
![]() Comment by Scott W. Somerville December 14th, 2005 at 3:14 pm |
When you say “522 is already history,” do you mean it’s already practically signed into law, or it’s already toast? |
![]() Comment by J Aron December 14th, 2005 at 3:43 pm |
Scott… When will you ever get it? So tell me .. despite the military memorandum of January 2005 – you still won’t give up what?? give up your ongoing quest to federally codify and regulate homeschooling? or your quest to become the Federal Department of Homeschooling? I am interested to know what other misinformation your lobbyists have been feeding Congressional delegates. I see the cracks of mistrust forming between you and some Congressional delegates because they see now that you guys don’t represent all there is about homeschooling in this country, and you haven’t been giving them correct information. You can’t even muster putting out correct information on your website for each state regarding their laws (CT’s is still worng!) Congressional people are trying to be helpful and sympathetic to homeschool issues (even though we all know anything about homeschooling doesn’t belong in the federal arena) and you are manipulating that sympathy for your own organizational gain. Shame on you! |
![]() Comment by Daryl December 14th, 2005 at 4:12 pm |
When you say “522 is already history,†do you mean it’s already practically signed into law, or it’s already toast? …with jam and butter. |
![]() Comment by Ron December 14th, 2005 at 5:04 pm |
…with jam and butter. Excellent news. |
![]() Comment by Daryl December 14th, 2005 at 5:08 pm |
It’s still only a rumor. |
![]() Comment by COD December 14th, 2005 at 5:59 pm |
Ron must be worried about our laws applying once we invade Canada 😉 |
![]() Comment by Daryl December 14th, 2005 at 6:15 pm |
Well, we’d better do it soon. ‘Cause at the rate we’re running up debt, they’ll be able to buy the whole country by ’08 or so. |
![]() Pingback from News and Commentary » Blindsiding December 14th, 2005 at 7:03 pm |
[…] Over at Daryl’s place, Mr. Somerville has said he doesn’t want anyone to feel blindsided by "what happens" concerning legislation to allow homeschool grads to enlist without having to take a GED or get 15 credit hours at the college level. Concerning the Army, though, there doesn’t need to be a GED or 15 credit hours if the homeschool program meets the Army’s requirements. I got it straight from the recruiter when I drove over today and sat in his office. (no, I didn’t enlist, but I sure felt a yearning)  There is also the DoD memorandum from January 2005 that says the same thing. […] |
![]() Comment by Mary Hud December 14th, 2005 at 10:09 pm |
“We may have to start listening to our opponents better, and we may have to win over some folks who don’t like the way we’ve done things in the past. This issue is important enough to HSLDA that we might even be willing to eat humble pie if that’s what it takes to get the job done.” Please listen to your opponents on this one, Scott. We don’t need Section 522 to get our kids into the military. We also don’t *want* Section 522. There is no reason to create a *special class* of people called *homeschoolers*. Institutional education uniquely prepares individuals for the conformity required to be successful in the military. Furthermore, each branch of the military has a different mission, and should be free to recruit based on the type of individual who would be most successful at accomplishing that mission. Section 522 doesn’t level the playing field for homeschoolers, it puts every branch of the military in the position of ignoring its mission when evaluating homeschooled recruits. And why didn’t you put out an e-lert on this language if it is so important? |
![]() Comment by Scott W. Somerville December 15th, 2005 at 6:04 pm |
As far as I know, section 522 is still alive and kicking, but Daryl may know something I don’t know. We’ll see–it’s a good test of how well the different wings of the homeschool movement are doing at mastering the political process. As for Judy’s argument that HSLDA hasn’t even included its own member in this process, I’d suggest you go take a look at the “military issues” section of the HSLDA website. We’ve been talking, writing, and emailing about this issue for about seven years now. To the best of my knowledge we have been both clear and consistent from the first: we want homeschool grads to be able to enlist without having to get a GED or take college credits. The language in section 522 would require all the branches of the military to use the same policy for recruiting and enlisting homeschool grads. They currently use the same “policy,” so to speak, for traditional school graduates. We aren’t saying the military can’t require special skills for fighter pilots, or nuclear technicians. They can and do. IF section 522 goes down in flames, I will be back here eating crow and begging for help. I don’t expect people to be particular kind to me, when and if that happens. But I’ll still be here, still trying to figure out a way to make sure homeschoolers can equitably enlist if they want to. |
![]() Comment by J Aron December 15th, 2005 at 7:01 pm |
Scott – your duplicity is disgusting. So tell me Scott, what high paying position will you be seeking in the Federal Department of Homeschooling? To hell with homeschool rights – you are merely concerned with feathering your own nest. You don’t give a damn about communicating better with anyone except those who will help you and your self-serving agendas. |
![]() Comment by Daryl December 15th, 2005 at 7:08 pm |
Good luck. HSLDA gives us all a big “Fuck You” and then you expect to be able to ask for help? Do y’all realize how pissed off everyone is at these tactics? I know you’re all lawyers, but still– how do you sleep at night? |
![]() Comment by Mary Hud December 15th, 2005 at 7:33 pm |
“IF section 522 goes down in flames, I will be back here eating crow and begging for help. I don’t expect people to be particular kind to me, when and if that happens. But I’ll still be here, still trying to figure out a way to make sure homeschoolers can equitably enlist if they want to.” You have been getting all the help you need, Scott. Homeschoolers do not want Section 522, nor do they need it. The whole opposition to this language, which according to my most recent conversation with Zach Moore in Senator Santorum’s office has been substantial, is from homeschoolers who realize that they already may enlist in the military. You are going to have to demonstrate that homeschoolers need – and want – your help to enlist. I just don’t see it anywhere but in your protestations. Truth by blatant assertion isn’t very reliable. |
![]() Comment by Ron December 15th, 2005 at 10:00 pm |
And that’s what protecting Daryl: our debt situation isn’t alot better than yours. We just have more natural resources left :-/ |
![]() Pingback from Atypical Homeschool.net » Mixed Bag December 15th, 2005 at 11:00 pm |
[…] There’s a conversation going on over at Daryl’s about Bill 522. I couldn’t resist joining the fray. […] |
![]() Comment by Natalie December 16th, 2005 at 12:55 am |
Scooter, I answered an email from one of HSLDA’s befuddled members asking, why–if this was such a big deal–couldn’t she find anything on HSLDA’s website about these bills? She was skeptical and in your corner, doubting that HSLDA would do such a thing as slip its members a legislative mickie. She’d even attached the press release HSLDA issued yesterday to her email, so apparently HSLDA’s involvement was not clear. Hopefully, I connected the dots for her. It’s the fourth such email/post/communication I’ve written this week. After all, clarification is in everyone’s best interest, nes pas? Natalie |
![]() Comment by Natalie December 16th, 2005 at 1:24 am |
Btw, the HSLDA member referenced above is/was “befuddled” through no fault of her own. She just couldn’t find answers when she went directly to the source, then thought that the lack of incriminating information was “proof” that we were either alarmists or making it up. Furthermore, her question was forwarded to me through three other channels. I don’t seek this stuff out, for the record. It may warm the cockles of Scott’s heart to know that I was very diplomatic in my responses, even pointing out that this anti-reg activists would line up with and fight alongside HSLDA *if* the organization was “defending homeschool freedom” by opposing federal legislation. But it’s not. It’s writing it. Natalie |
![]() Comment by speedwell December 16th, 2005 at 2:52 am |
Don’t forget that HSLDA members trust that their organization will protect their freedom to homeschool without unnecessary and burdensome regulation. If you no longer wish to protect that freedom, then, to put it bluntly, you need to go into some other line of business. If 522 passes and many of your members who trust you and cherish their liberty call upon you to help them protect their homeschooling choices, what are you going to do? Stick your fingers in your ears and laugh? I’m so glad I found out about this before my two nieces with babies signed up with you. I was going to pay their fees. Maybe I ought to save the money until I find another organization that won’t renege on their commitment to all homeschoolers, not just future soldiers and their families. |
![]() Comment by Mary Nix December 16th, 2005 at 11:27 am |
Natalie wrote: # Btw, the HSLDA member referenced above is/was “befuddled†through no fault of her own. She just couldn’t find answers when she went directly to the source, then thought that the lack of incriminating information was “proof†that we were either alarmists or making it up. Furthermore, her question was forwarded to me through three other channels. I don’t seek this stuff out, for the record. Natalie Another bit of proof that HSLDA was involved can be found at the THOMAS legislative site. If you click on the Congressional Record for the HR 3753/S.1691, you will 9/13/2005: 9/20/2005: If you object to the amendment, contact Sen. Warners office TODAY and ask that it be struck before it leaves committee. Mary |
![]() Comment by Valerie December 16th, 2005 at 11:58 am |
>>>As for Judy’s argument that HSLDA hasn’t even included its own member in this process, I’d suggest you go take a look at the “military issues†section of the HSLDA website. We’ve been talking, writing, and emailing about this issue for about seven years now. |
![]() Comment by Valerie December 16th, 2005 at 11:59 am |
I hate it when my quotations cut off the rest of the comment. (2nd time; slow learner) Read the quotation above, and now, what I also included. ===================================== For the third time in two years, again without notice to the national homeschooling community, proposed federal legislation affecting homeschoolers was introduced into Congress. This third time it wasn’t announced after-the-fact as was the previous two times. Buried deep in the 700+ pages of the National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2006, was a section labeled Recruiting and Enlistment of Home Schoolers. Mary forwarded her copying of this section, # 522, to me, asking what I thought of it. I asked where she got it. She said she found it at Thomas. When did it get put in to the Congressional Record, I asked. On the 3rd of October. It turns out that was the same day Harriet Meiers was nominated for the Supreme Court. Oh. I guess that would overshadow most legislation. 1. HSLDA’s Philadelphia National Conference Plus: Homeschooling in the News 1. Defending a Family’s Rights at the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals Plus: Homeschooling in the News 1. Washington Times Op-ed–Suspicion Can Bring Intrusions on Family Plus: Homeschooling in the News 1. The Dr. Phil Show Plus: Homeschooling in the News |
![]() Comment by Daryl December 16th, 2005 at 12:40 pm |
On the not insignificant chance that the amendment hasn’t been pulled, I called Warner’s office a few minutes ago. They’re getting lots of phone calls about it. Senator John Warner – 202-224-2023 |
![]() Comment by Helen December 16th, 2005 at 12:59 pm |
Real life has thrown me for a loop and I’ve been offline more than online recently (still following these developments intently), but I’m greatly heartened to come here and read the no-nonsense interactions, Daryl. Thanks for being at the forefront of this situation. |
![]() Comment by Scott W. Somerville December 16th, 2005 at 2:07 pm |
I admire the hard work you guys have put into stopping section 522. Whether or not 522 goes through or goes down in flames, I’m genuinely impressed by the organization and effectiveness I’ve seen this time around. I’m warming up the oven to bake my crow! |
![]() Comment by Natalie December 16th, 2005 at 2:32 pm |
I’ve been trying to call Sen. Warner’s office for the last two hours. After several 10-minute periods of hitting FLASH and REDIAL, his line is still busy. Considering our ability to mobilize and the fact that many HSLDA members I know aren’t too concerned, I’m guessing those are our folks on the line. Natalie |
![]() Comment by COD December 16th, 2005 at 9:41 pm |
I just faxed my letter to Sen. Warner, and I live in his state, so he damn well better listen! |
![]() Comment by Natalie December 17th, 2005 at 12:12 am |
Question: Is the McCain torture ban also a part of HR 1815? |
![]() Pingback from News and Commentary » Sec 522 blog activities December 17th, 2005 at 12:34 am |
[…] Daryl is cooking again, as usual: […] |
![]() Comment by Mary Nix December 17th, 2005 at 7:01 am |
Natalie asked: Question: Is the McCain torture ban also a part of HR 1815? Yes. Mary |
![]() Comment by Natalie December 18th, 2005 at 3:00 am |
Thanks, Mary. Jeanne and I were talking about it a few days ago and were unsure. |
![]() Comment by Mary Nix December 18th, 2005 at 1:03 pm |
Yes Natalie, there are many controversial additions to this bill. Here is the contact info for the house conferees. Mary — HOUSE MEMBERS ON CONFERENCE COMMITTEE Duncan Hunter (R – CA) (Chair of Armed Services) Curt Weldon (R – PA) Joel Hefley (R – CO) Jim Saxton (R – NJ) John M. McHugh (R – NY) Terry Everett (R – AL) Roscoe G. Bartlett (R – MD) Howard P. “Buck” McKeon (R – CA) Mac Thornberry (R – TX) John N. Hostettler (R – IN) Jim Ryun (R – KS) Jim Gibbons (R – NV) Robin Hayes (R – NC) Ken Calvert (R – CA) Rob Simmons (R – CT) Thelma D. Drake (R – VA) Ike Skelton (D – MO) John M. Spratt Jr. (D – SC) Solomon P. Ortiz (D – TX) Lane Evans (D – IL) Gene Taylor (D – MS) Neil Abercrombie (D – HI) Martin T. Meehan (D – MA) Silvestre Reyes (D – TX) Vic Snyder (D – AR) Adam Smith (D – WA) Loretta Sanchez (D – CA) Ellen O. Tauscher (D – CA) |
![]() Pingback from Homeschool NonDiscrimination Act of 2005 – A2Z Homeschooling - A2Z Homeschooling | A2Z Homeschooling March 31st, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
[…] Under a special test program, the Army is now treating home school graduates as educational Tier I, the same educational category as high school diploma-holders. […] |