Utterly Meaningless

Well, snark is fun and all, but unfortunately, your take on things is mostly factual. The good folks from the Westboro Baptist Church are actually engaging in anti-American, anti-Christian activities. I would assume they also hold liberal viewpoints, but not necessarily.

The accusation sticks. The ACLU supports it’s end of the political spectrum, even if it’s found in a group of people calling themselves christians.

Riiiight! Westboro is right up with People for the American Way and PETA.

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, ain’t it?

Thanks for the laugh.

Can’t argue with the ACLU on this one, but I also think that a full load of buckshot to the face of Phelps is nicer than he deserves.

It’s the same mindset as the Bush Admin’s “Free Speech Zones.” Anathema to civil libertarians, hence the ACLU’s involvement.

Chris:
“Hell, is there anything MORE American than a protest?”

Peaceful assembly without being accosted by wacko street warriors?

Seems to me SOMEBODY’S civil rights get violated in any protest — isn’t a “protest” public behavior designed to make a political point by interfering with other folks’ peaceful purpose for assembly? Their rights are just collateral damage to the ACLU, be it funerals, parades, graduation ceremonies or just trying to get to work, class or the clinic, take a family vacation or find salvation – either you take one side over the other because you think their rights trump the other side’s, or you don’t. To me the ACLU isn’t very good at balancing or responsbility, and won’t even try.

Got nothing to say against people living in Westborough, protesters, or protesting in general. The thing setting these folks apart, is that they’re picketing US soldier’s funerals.

Hey, let these guys march down the road. Let them hand out literature outside recruiting offices. Let them write letters to the editor, or create PACs and lobby, or produce flash videos, or what have you.

But I’m thinking that the “defending of whacked-out opinions” should be done by the person who thinks picketing funerals is something pro-American, or as something even remotely resembling what Christ taught.

Cognitive dissonance indeed.

(Out of curiosity Daryl, what’s your take of the fine folks we see out in front of abortion clinics?)

It seems as though JJ Ross is suggesting that we have a right not to be bothered. Perhaps we also have a right never to feel discomfort or to have to be made aware of something we find offensive. In truth, we have the right to ignore things we don’t like. We can protest a protest. We can use our own right to free speech to disagree with people. But we certainly don’t have the right to shut up everything we don’t want to hear. That’s freedom of speech, my right to say and do things that may make you feel bad or uncomfortable.

The thing setting these folks apart, is that they’re picketing US soldier’s funerals.

All that proves is that they picked a good target.

But I’m thinking that the “defending of whacked-out opinions” should be done by the person who thinks picketing funerals is something pro-American, or as something even remotely resembling what Christ taught.

Well, since the Christians don’t seem to want to take this one up, it’s left to us godless ACLUers.

Out of curiosity Daryl, what’s your take of the fine folks we see out in front of abortion clinics?

As long as they don’t interfere with the functioning of a private business, they can protest all they like.

Any protest is fineas long as it doesn’t interfere with a functioning “private business?”

OK – but what about my own personal “private business” where I just want to be left alone, and I’m not government, hence no legitimate political target, however handy or sexy I might be for making your political point?
I say real civil libertarians ought to care MORE about some private citizen just trying to mourn her child’s death or celebrate her child’s marriage or prevent her child having a child, than they care about either commerce or government.

To me that’s the only meaning of unifying to support civil liberty that counts, and if the so-called ACLU doesn’t stand for that, I don’t stand with it. If they DO stand for that, they don’t do a good job of showing it. Imo.

Of course I feel the same about the HSLDA. . .

And where do we draw the line then? Is it just funerals? Or whenever you personally feel like the protests are inconveniencing you?

In a public space, you do not necessarily have the right to not be confronted with speech that you dislike.

Now, do I agree with Westboro? Of course not. And there might be ways of tailoring a law so that it didn’t discriminate based on the content of the speech. Multiple states have passed laws to stop these protests. Only one has been sued.

Some of you would reduce my rights and yours to some absurd obligation to endure crap and craziness at every turn with no way to choose “not?” Very scary . . .
I was tear-gassed about 1972, innocently coming out of my university library while an anti-war street war was being waged against the university (as if the VietNam Conflict was UF’s fault.) I didn’t sue then and I get it of course — at least UF was some form of government institution, and yeah, protesting government is a civil right. The Terri Schiavo protests closed a couple of elementary schools in Tampa, but they also made completely unknown, unsung, unprotested grandchildren miss their own beloved relatives’passing, because they simply couldn’t get through the televised “protests” to the hospice in a timely manner. Legal or not, defended by the ACVLU or ot, in my view that isn’t legitimate protest of government policy, that’s a violation of private law-abiding American citizens’ private civil rights. Especially if I am nobody rather than a celebrity, my child’s funeral, marriage or abortion is not government, not war, not news and not your business! (My child’s home education isn’t your business either — why don’t homeschoolers of all people get that it’s the SAME PRINCIPLE??) It’s legal, private, possibly sacred, and none of your damn business. Go protest abortiion or war or drugs or God whatever someplace else, and if you won’t, you aren’t entitled to call yourself a champion of MY rights as a private citizen. Period.

What are civil liberties, then, if not some form of our mutual right to be civil and free and private, from police and partisans and preachers, all manner of wackos, neighbors and Miss Prisses and social workers?What ARE civil liberties if not my right to live to my own private, peaceful, lawful life without being accosted by organized wackos (financed by terrorism or not) in my face slavering about how their wants are more important to American freedom than what I want, which is simple respect for my existing my American freedom?

DAryl wrote:
“. . . there might be ways of tailoring a law so that it didn’t discriminate based on the content of the speech. Multiple states have passed laws to stop these protests. Only one has been sued.”

Excellent point and the best way to look at policy, considering we are so diverse and yet equal under the law —

“Is it just funerals? Or whenever you personally feel like the protests are inconveniencing you?”

Hey, keep in mind, I’m not even saying that it should be illegal to protest at a funeral. My sole point: These protestors exhibit anti-American and anti-Christian qualities, and the ACLU is more likely to be defending these folks, than groups displaying pro-American, pro-Christian qualities.

I’m all about someone’s legal protected right to go off and publicly advance whatever agenda they like.

And if some really smart blogger you enjoy reading is snarking about with comments like “That damn ACLU is busy trumpeting liberal, anti-American, anti-Christian causes again!”, then free speech is a good thing because you can point out to him that his snark is only one-third valid.

🙂

ACLU is more likely to be defending these folks, than groups displaying pro-American, pro-Christian qualities.

Folks expressing pro-American and pro-Christian viewpoints aren’t usually the targets of laws aimed at abridging their free-speech rights.

So, the ACLU is almost always going to look like it favors anti-American/unpopular causes. My point in all of this, though, is that they do not pick cases based on left/right politics.

I wish I did believe that national interest groups like the ACLU and HSLDA are less political and more noble than they appear from the outside looking in.

I wish I could believe journalism is, too. 🙂